Curse

VishnuOdin · Feb 10, 2009, 07:15 PM // 19:15

I'm very close to buying my first set of Elite armor, so I've been stockpiling rune's and insignia's for when the time comes. I have most of it worked out, but I'm wondering what some more seasoned necro's would recommend for a few things. Here's what I have so far;

Armor:
======

Elite Necrotic Armor
60 Platinum, 350 Tanned Hide Squares, 35 Chitin Fragments

Weapons:
========

Bone Staff from Luven Underwood
Energy +10
Halves casting time of Death Magic spells (chance: 20%)
Halves skill recharge of spells (chance: 20%)

Perfect Staff Wrapping of Fortitude
Health +30

Perfect Insightful Staff Head
Energy +5

Insignia:
=========

Head: Bloodstained Insignia
Reduces casting time of spells that exploit corpses by 25% (non-stacking)

Chest: Undertaker's Insignia
Armor +5 (while health is below 80%)
Armor +10 (while health is below 60%)
Armor +15 (while health is below 40%)
Armor +20 (while health is below 20%)

Legs: Minion Master's Insignia
Armor +5 (while you control 1 or more minions)
Armor +10 (while you control 3 or more minions)
Armor +15 (while you control 5 or more minions)

Hands: Radiant Insignia
Energy +1

Feet: Radiant Insignia
Energy +1

Runes:
======

Head: Rune of Superior Death Magic
Death Magic +3 (penalty of -75 health)

Chest: Rune of Superior Vigor
Health +50

Legs: Rune of Minor Soul Reaping
Soul Reaping +1

Hands: Rune of Minor Curses
Curses +1

Feet: Rune of Attunement
Energy +2

Skills:
=======

Insidious Parasite
Spiteful Spirit
Fireball
Deathly Swarm
Fire Storm
Soul Feast
Animate Bone Horror
Glyph of Lesser Energy

Notes:
======

I have most of this already, my current staff wrapping is +22h (30h is 4k, I'll upgrade later) and I have a +30h Rune of Minor Vigor (+50 is like 20k).

I chose +30h staff wrapping over 20% chance to up Death Magic by one, I have 16 Death Magic and think the extra health will help more then a chance to make a pet a bit stronger.

Currently I have 16 Death Magic, 8 Soul Reaping, 7 Curses, and 8 Fire Magic. That includes the Major Death Magic rune, but I don't have either of the minor ones on my current gear. When I do I'm probably going to shift one point from Soul Reaping into Fire Magic, I don't have any energy management issues so the extra firepower will help. I think I'll gain more damage output from upping fire then upping curses. An extra curse point only adds 2-3 dmg per tick, where fire adds almost 10. I'm going to try both and see which works better.

I don't use the ranged pets, the usually die before they do that much damage and with the melee pets I can swarm mobs to pin them together.

Using Glyph of Energy I can cast the majority of my skills without consuming any energy, or only 5 in the case of the first two curses. I'm going for DPS and AoE, I don't have a single direct damage spell that doesn't effect adjacent foes. Using Soul Feast I can grab more then 50% of my health back if the healer's are otherwise occupied.

What do you think I should use, Radiant Insignia's + Rune of Attunement on hands and feet or health buffs? Necro's seem pretty fragile so I'm usually hiding at the back, and if I pull aggro I cast Fire Storm to break them up. My first thought was go for the energy, but I'll only gain 4 which isn't enough to cast anything. If I could somehow squeeze out 5 I'd definitely go that route since that's what it costs to cast Glyph of Lesser Energy.

Sorry this was so long and thanks in advance!

Icy The Mage · Feb 10, 2009, 07:44 PM // 19:44

Umm, your build is bad. You shouldn't be specced into fire mate.

Moloch Vein · Feb 10, 2009, 07:48 PM // 19:48

What campaigns do you own?

VishnuOdin · Feb 10, 2009, 07:55 PM // 19:55

Don't knock it until you try it. Here's my rotation;

Cast SS on one target, cast IP on another, Fire Storm group, use Glyph of Energy and spam Fireball and DS back and forth. Usually by the time Fireball is cast the first time I've already dropped 2-3 mobs, so I start spawning pets.

I've tried removing every point from Fire, and upping Curses and Blood Magic, or both, and I do far more damage this way. About the only Blood Magic skill that seems useful is Life Drain, but if I keep myself out of harms way I drop things faster casting damage spells then cursing. Plus it's more fun

If I spec to far Necro, I'm useless without pets (any place corpses don't drop), or when I have to do any kind of solo mission. I used this build to beat Doppleganger and Mano-a-Normo (except I didn't have SS at the time).

I know this is not a typical necro build, but it works for me.

VishnuOdin · Feb 10, 2009, 07:56 PM // 19:56

I only own Prophecies and Eye of the North. I should also add in my rotation I cast SS every time it's available, on every odd numbered mob to spread damage.

[edit]

I'm not interested in a 55 Necro / Monk build at all. I like hordes of pets, and I like to play with fire lol.

The friend I play with most is a Ele / Ranger, and we time our Fire Storms / Meteor. With my pets and our tanks pinning enemies together we can drop large groups very quickly. Combined with SS we basically AoE everything to pieces.

I don't play solo very often, so this build works well in our group. Also used this build when we fought Glint, which we dropped first try, and neither of us died. He did kill one of our healers and both our tanks (not all at the same time).

This thread was more for Rune / Insignia recommendations then build discussion, but I figured it would be helpful to include it.

[/edit]

Tharg · Feb 10, 2009, 08:10 PM // 20:10

I would take out the rune of attunement and radiant insignias. They give only an ititial energy advantage. When a fight starts, the advantage is gone. You should have no energy problems - just go survivor and vitae.

Drop Superior Death down to a Minor Death

VishnuOdin · Feb 10, 2009, 08:15 PM // 20:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by tvalentijn

I would take out the rune of attunement and radiant insignias. They give only an ititial energy advantage. When a fight starts, the advantage is gone. You should have no energy problems - just go survivor and vitae.

Good call.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tvalentijn

Drop Superior Death down to a Minor Death

Question about the Death Rune recommendation, I read somewhere that pets are much weaker if you have less then 16 Death Magic. If I remove that I'll be down to 14 unless I shift points out of something else, which at that level will probably require me to drop one attribute one point and another by two.

I know I'd gain a good chunk of health by doing so, but is it really worth the level drop my pets will take? I spawn as many as I can, I usually have 6+ on the go and a full 10 when enough corpses are available.

Calista Blackblood · Feb 10, 2009, 08:20 PM // 20:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by VishnuOdin

I'm very close to buying my first set of Elite armor, so I've been stockpiling rune's and insignia's for when the time comes. I have most of it worked out, but I'm wondering what some more seasoned necro's would recommend for a few things. Here's what I have so far;
Skills:
=======

Insidious Parasite
Spiteful Spirit
Fireball
Deathly Swarm
Fire Storm
Soul Feast
Animate Bone Horror
Glyph of Lesser Energy

Quote:

Currently I have 16 Death Magic, 8 Soul Reaping, 7 Curses, and 8 Fire Magic

16 Death Magic for 2 relatively useless skills + 1 animation:No heal of any sort for any minions you have.

7 Curses for 2 actually decent skills that you seem to overlook.Curses is by far the strongest necro skill line.

8 Fire Magic:The weakest attribute in your build.Firestorm and flareball on a necro?

8 Soul Reaping:Very low

Quote:

Notes:
======
That includes the Major Death Magic rune, but I don't have either of the minor ones on my current gear. When I do I'm probably going to shift one point from Soul Reaping into Fire Magic, I don't have any energy management issues so the extra firepower will help. I think I'll gain more damage output from upping fire then upping curses. An extra curse point only adds 2-3 dmg per tick, where fire adds almost 10. I'm going to try both and see which works better.

Curses is specced far too low.Potency is really only at 14+ Curses.

Quote:

I don't use the ranged pets, the usually die before they do that much damage and with the melee pets I can swarm mobs to pin them together.

Minions: You have no heal for them.

Quote:

Using Glyph of Energy I can cast the majority of my skills without consuming any energy, or only 5 in the case of the first two curses. I'm going for DPS and AoE, I don't have a single direct damage spell that doesn't effect adjacent foes. Using Soul Feast I can grab more then 50% of my health back if the healer's are otherwise occupied.

DPS and AoE? Your build offers little of either that's actually usefull

Quote:

What do you think I should use, Radiant Insignia's + Rune of Attunement on hands and feet or health buffs? Necro's seem pretty fragile so I'm usually hiding at the back, and if I pull aggro I cast Fire Storm to break them up. My first thought was go for the energy, but I'll only gain 4 which isn't enough to cast anything. If I could somehow squeeze out 5 I'd definitely go that route since that's what it costs to cast Glyph of Lesser Energy.

You do NOT want aggro to break up when using [spiteful spirit]. Your AoE from [fire storm] is counter-productive to the fact.

[Stolen from Moloch;OAVDIjxHD5ZZZ7ZXj5IA] Try this..Would probably post more but have to go afk

VishnuOdin · Feb 10, 2009, 08:43 PM // 20:43

I appreciate the time you took to type that, and I will give the build you posted some thought, but this is the last time I'm going to defend my build. I understand it's not a traditional necro build, but it works for me and I'm doing quite well using it.

I like my pets, the sole reason I'm a Necromancer is to be a hybrid MM / firemancer. I don't heal them, nor do I plan to. It seems like an exercise in futility, so I let them die and spawn new ones.

SS does DPS, as do my pets. 10 level 18 pets compensate for the lower curse level, plus help pin mobs together for when I cast Fire Storm and she casts Meteor (we time this so they both hit at once). That combination will drop anything we've encountered so far.

What I meant by using FS to break up mobs, is when the tank looses aggro or I get jumped. I know there's a skill to do AoE from my location, but casting it on a mob directly in front of me has the same effect so it's duel purpose.

I do like the look of Barbs, but I don't have skill available to me yet. I'll check some of the Skill Trainer's and see if I can pick it up.

From the tooltips I didn't think MoP stacked with SS, and I'd rather just cast SS on everything then try to manage both. Plus in solo fights SS is better, and with Glyph of Energy I can reduce it to 5 or cast the majority of my spells without using any energy at all, which allows me to regenerate quickly and cast non-stop.

I don't have PvP access so this is solely for PvE.

[edit] Again this thread was more for Rune / Insignia recommendations then build discussion as I said before and asked in my first post. This is a team build not a solo farming build, and for me it works well in both situations. Every person is different. What works for you may not work for me, and vice versa. I appreciate the build recommendations but please try to stay on topic

[/edit]

What Now · Feb 10, 2009, 09:01 PM // 21:01

Agreed, let people run what they wanna run, stop jerking off to your "superior" builds. He's obviously not in PvP or ruining anyone elses fun is he?

As for insignias I prefer survivor or something that;s always in effect, in a case where your minions die or you're in a mission where you are unable to use many bodies you will only suffer.

Xenomortis · Feb 10, 2009, 09:04 PM // 21:04

You shouldn't have a tank in your party per se. A warrior will hopefully have all the aggro, but tanking they should not be doing.

Fire magic is poor really, especially when specced at 8 on a necro. Plus, you have two of its weaker skills.
Mark of Pain is far superior, especially when coupled with a bunch of physicals or minions (you have EotN, so get Livia and make her a dedicated Minion master/bomber or something).

10 minions do not compensate for the low spec in Curses. Your're trying to spread out too much, you have 16 in Death for weak minions that you can't maintain and have a pathetic amount in your most damaging line. Your energy management attribute needs to be higher - Soul Reaping is absurd in PvE and far outstrips the marginal gain you get from using E-Storage skills from your elementalist secondary.

With SS and MoP, you don't want to break up mobs, you want to decimate them. Firestorm is useless.
I recommend Barbs if you can get it, it's a nice damage skill that works well with a MM - so I also recommend getting Livia for a hero.

The others have pretty much summed it up. Calista beat me this time.

Really it comes to this: If you want minions, be a Minion Master. If you want damage and efficiency, go Curses with SS and MoP.
If you want to be a fire casting necro with undead pets, by all means do it, however you will struggle as you progress through the game. That image may appeal to you now, but embrace the necromancer as it is and you will come to love it over everything else.

As for runes:
Survivors are useful. If you decide to follow up on the suggestions, then take either a +2 or +3 rune of your main attribute. It's your call if you think the extra health loss is worth it, but most will probably say it isn't.
If you take minions, take a bloodstained insignia - very helpful.
Tormentors and Minion Master's insignia are nice, obviously the latter only if you're a MM and usually have a good number of minions up.
Fill the rest of the slots with runes of Vitae and take one Rune of Vigor (of the highest spec you can afford).

If you absolutely insist on sticking with your build, well I still suggest Survivor insignias with a Bloodstained one. Then take a single +2/3 attribute rune and a rune of vigor. Fill the rest with vitae.
You should have no need for runes of attunement or radiant insignias.
Well, with such a low spec in Soul Reaping you might do...

Moloch Vein · Feb 10, 2009, 09:06 PM // 21:06

Vishnu... this isn't a hybrid fire/MM build. It's a Curses/Fire/Death/Soul Reaping-build. You spec in four different attributes with very little synergy between the skills. Actually, we've all seen these kinds of builds, because we've all made them. It's a newbie build. No offense since we were all at one time newbies.

Fortunately, you do own the GW:EN campaign, which begs the question why you don't use your PvE-only skills. Let me give you an example.

You say you want a hybrid. I'd definitely suggest you get rid of at least one attribute. The reason we're advocating to get rid of fire is, quite simply, that fire sucks in PvE. It's armor-depending damage that is low-threat to monsters of any caliber.

Then, however, you say that you don't want to heal your minions. This is generally a quite bad idea unless you're going the Death Nova route. There's no way that you can maintain, as you say, 10 minions without healing them. However, I can try to help you...

[build prof=n/any death=10+1+2 curses=11+2 soulr=10+1][aura of the lich][well of suffering][putrid bile][mark of pain][barbs][ebon vanguard assassin support][ebon battle standard of honor][air of superiority][/build]

It's by no means optimized but it'll work just fine nonetheless.

As for your insignia scrap the undertaker's, take minion master's insignia on chest/legs, pop survivor and vitaes, and get a staff with +60hp and +5e^50.

(Edit, switched out a NF skill.)

Calista Blackblood · Feb 10, 2009, 09:51 PM // 21:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by VishnuOdin

Again this thread was more for Rune / Insignia recommendations then build discussion as I said before and asked in my first post. This is a team build not a solo farming build, and for me it works well in both situations. Every person is different. What works for you may not work for me, and vice versa. I appreciate the build recommendations but please try to stay on topic

Working well and being optimal/decent are very different.Your build may work,but is nowhere near as good as it could be.Chaining elemental skills on a necro with another human ele is the very bottom end of PvE and that which I respect,everyone starts somewhere.

The best thing you could actually do is read posts here but you seem to knock any help back.Realistically you can't rune and insignia armor optimally without knowing which build you are going to run,as is the case with the build posted.You wouldn't have a Minion Master's Insignia on a head-peice with +3 curses it's nonsensical..

Lord Of Blame · Feb 10, 2009, 10:49 PM // 22:49

I would use all health runes and insignias. I wouldn't bother with armor buffs, and energy buffs on a necro is a waste of a slot. I personally would keep the sup death rune on the headpiece. You may also want to put a +30 head on your staff instead of the +5 energy due to soul reaping being so effictive, or better yet get a staff that is inscribable and put a +5^50 inscription on it. That will give your staff +15 energy and +60 health.

I say run the fire magic skills if that is what you like. Of course there are much better options for a necro than running fire but if you are having fun then by all means go for it. My guess is that eventually you will stop using it, especially if you pick up the other campaigns (Factions=Discord). Once you do that you will see how good the necro really is and how the fire magic is a waste of slots. Also when you decide to give HM a try I promise you will take the fire skills out, Fire in HM is fail, Necro in HM is great. Good luck.

VishnuOdin · Feb 10, 2009, 11:18 PM // 23:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by VishnuOdin

I know this is not a typical necro build, but it works for me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by VishnuOdin

I appreciate the time you took to type that, and I will give the build you posted some thought, but this is the last time I'm going to defend my build. I understand it's not a traditional necro build, but it works for me and I'm doing quite well using it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by VishnuOdin

This thread was more for Rune / Insignia recommendations then build discussion, but I figured it would be helpful to include it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by VishnuOdin

Again this thread was more for Rune / Insignia recommendations then build discussion as I said before and asked in my first post. What works for you may not work for me, and vice versa. I appreciate the build recommendations but please try to stay on topic

Did you read any of my posts? I didn't ask for a build, or how to make my build better. I asked if I should go for more energy or more health.

I'm not knocking the builds that were provided, I just don't think they fit my play style or the type of character I'm trying to create. I never once said they were bad, or there was anything wrong with them.

I've killed Doppleganger, Glint, and Mano-a-Normo with this build. I'm sure the game gets harder, but so far I'm doing quite well with it (or at least I think so). I like my build, it's fun, I have lots of pets and I get to set things on fire. That probably sounds childish but it's a game after all and shouldn't I have fun playing it?

Thank you to the posters that answered my question.

Calista Blackblood · Feb 10, 2009, 11:36 PM // 23:36

Sorry for us all trying to be helpful and with that. Closed